Comments on: Drafting in Zwift: is it easier to draft behind a larger rider? https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/ News, tips, and reviews for Zwift fanatics Thu, 30 May 2024 07:43:32 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 By: Claudio https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-121816 Thu, 30 May 2024 07:43:32 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-121816 very interesting! Thanks!
I can swear, I could feel the difference when drafting behind a “small” cyclist… How powerful is our mind! 😀

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By: Ian https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-121764 Wed, 29 May 2024 17:47:55 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-121764 In reply to Eric Schlange.

If that was important, why couldn’t they allow adjusting the draft effect individually? (i.e. I can change a setting that indicates that I only want 50% of the draft effect so I have to work harder in the group). Pretty simple to divide a formula by 1/2, no?

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By: WTF https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-121023 Fri, 10 May 2024 00:01:09 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-121023 In reply to Jessica.

Not really. If a rider becomes 3 times heavier, their volume increases by 3 times (assuming a constant human density). When you increase the volume of a specific 3 dimensional shape while keeping one of it’s dimensions (height) constant, the other dimensions increase by a factor of the dimension to the two thirds power. So you don’t become 3 times wider if your weight increases by a factor of three. You become 3 to the 2/3 power wider. 3^0.66 = 2. So a rider becomes 2 times wider (and 2 times thicker). Frontal area and surface area increase in the same proportion. The reason that viewing power required to maintain speed inflates the drag increase is because of the way that power varies with velocity due to the nature of drag. Power required to maintain a given speed increases with the cube of speed. As drag coefficient increases, the power required to maintain a certain steady state speed increases above and beyond the drag coefficient increase.

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By: molly momentum https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120595 Mon, 06 May 2024 05:42:02 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120595 While I can still ride through the backs of folk, I would expect this nuance to be missing.

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By: Artur https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120395 Thu, 02 May 2024 09:04:08 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120395 In reply to Artur.

example 3 (rotating group riders):

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By: Artur https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120394 Thu, 02 May 2024 09:03:08 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120394 In reply to Artur.

example 2:

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By: Artur https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120393 Thu, 02 May 2024 09:02:24 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120393 Eric, if you haven’t checked yet, please take a peek at the “Performance predictor” in Sauce fo Strava.
There is a capital “simulator” of drafting, its size, rotation, place in the group, etc.

example:

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By: Jessica https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120388 Thu, 02 May 2024 04:46:51 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120388 The one thing it does confirm is that the effect of weight in Zwift, on the flat, is insanely inflated, it really shouldn’t require that much extra power, it’s not like a rider suddenly gets 3x wider.

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By: WTF https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120383 Thu, 02 May 2024 02:02:56 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120383 I’ve taken the liberty of doing a little bit of deeper analysis based on your data. Here are my results.

For approximately steady-state testing on mostly flat ground, such as you have done here, it is possible to calculate reasonable values for CdA using the steady-state cycling speed vs. power equation with drag and rolling resistance terms. I have done that calculation and the estimated values of CdA for your lead rider cases are shown below.

height weight power Calculated CdA (ft^2)
152 50 212 2.35
198    50   254    2.88
152    75    267    2.90
198    75    306    3.39
152    150    378    3.88
198    150    437    4.62

From the drafting rider speed and power, it is possible to calculate the “effective” CdA for the drafting rider. That calculation yields a value of effective CdA of the drafting rider in the draft of about 2.37 ft^2. (You can treat riding in the draft as an effective reduction in the CdA due to the form of the draft force equation).

Since you didn’t run the height/weight combination of the drafting rider in the lead position, the free stream CdA of the drafting rider cannot be determined directly, as it was for the front position riders. However, it can be estimated reasonably well analytically. That value is about 3.31 ft^2 based on a free stream power at 40kph of about 300 watts.

The difference between the free-stream CdA (3.31 ft^2) and the effective CdA in the draft (2.37 ft^2) for your 75kg, 183cm rider is about 28 percent. Your testing shows that the draft force on the 75kg, 183cm rider is reduced by 28 percent in the draft. The power savings (225 watts drafting vs. about 300 watts free stream) is about 25%.

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By: max https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-size-draft/#comment-120327 Wed, 01 May 2024 05:13:05 +0000 https://zwiftinsider.com/?p=105682#comment-120327 Does the strength of the draft shadow increase with more riders out front? If 2,3,4 people were riding side by side does the person drafting behind them have to produce less and less watts to keep pace?

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